Thursday, August 25, 2011

Compare/Contrast: Keats vs. Longfellow

If you did not get to participate enough during the class period, please post your comments and questions below.  **Remember that this is a discussion--so you must ask questions and respond to one another.  Do not merely post your own ideas.  Have fun! :)

104 comments:

  1. I noticed that there was symbolism behind the image of the field, grain, and the harvester. Did you guys see it? What do you think the image represents?
    Jana Jacobs
    Period - 6

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  2. Oh sorry, I'm talking about the poem "When I Have Fears"

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  3. Jana--stop posting during class! After 2:26 will count. ;)

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  4. Yea Jana I noticed that too. I think he uses those words to symbolize how he needs to harvest his thoughts while they're ripe.
    Tim Aram Period 6

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  5. Tim, I actually think that it is just a simile. In lines 2-4, the speaker explains how his thoughts would be contained in a book, then he compares it to 'rich garners' (a granary- that stores grain). His thoughts in a book is like grain in a garner.

    Abigayle Dizon
    Period 6

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  6. In the poem "Mezzo Cammin," what is the symbolism of "to build some tower of song with lofty parapet" trying to explain in lines 3-4?

    Luis Mireles

    Period 6

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  8. In the poem "When I Have Fears," What is being addressed in line 9, "fair creature of an hour?" I know that in poetry that the meaning is left to the reader and it's subjective, but I still am not able to understand the meaning.

    Tiffani Villafranca
    Period 6

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  9. Tiffani, what the author means by "fair creature of an hour" is that he is talking about a lover. He is saying that he will never find a lover.

    Luis Mireles
    Period 6

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  10. Like in the next line when he says "that I shall never look upon thee" that suggests that he never find a lover, not a even an average or "fair" looking companion.

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  11. Tiffani, I think the "fair creature of an hour" symbolizes a woman that he met and may never meet again, which brings back to the whole idea of the poem- that he may not find that "fairy power" of love.

    Abigayle Dizon
    Period 6

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  12. Abigayle, I believe that "faery" represents more than just a "fairy". I believe a word that could replace "faery" is small since fairies are small mystical creatures and since it would make sense with the line "Never have relish in the small power of unreflecting love" meaning that that he thinks he doesnt possession love in himself.

    Luis Mireles
    Period 6

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  13. Luis, I think "to build some tower of song with lofty parapet" symbolizes his hope of achieving great things. I think he is comparing his goals to a tower that he had hoped to "build" during his youth.

    Abigayle Dizon
    Period 6

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  14. I agree with you, Abigayle and Luis. So the speaker gives expression to his fear that his youthful life may be cut off before he gets a chance to experience the love of a woman?

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  15. Luis- again, that does makes sense. So he is talking about a 'woman' that he may never be able to love?

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  16. Yes exactly. He believes that he will never meet a woman to experience love, not even if the woman is ugly. Also, what the lines could be saying is that he is talking to himself, thinking that he is ugly, making him think he will never find love due to his appearance.

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  17. Tiffani, I really don't understand now that Luis further explained his opinion. The following line after "fair creature of an hour" talks about an unreflecting love, so that can either mean somebody doesn't love him back or he doesn't love anybody else.

    Abigayle Dizon
    Period 6

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  18. I agree with you again, Abigayle. In the line "to build some tower of song with lofty parapet," with lofty meaning high or elevated, I also think that he's comparing his goals to a high elevated tower. During your youth, you tend to have many goals, and aiming for the impossible since lofty parapet means a high barricade. I think that's what the speaker was trying to interpret.

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  19. In "Mezzo Cammin" though out the whole poem, he talks about a city. What does this 'city in the twilight dim a vast, With smoking roofs, soft bells, and gleaming lights' represent?

    Abigayle Dizon
    Period 6

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  20. I believe the setting he describes is his past. Context clues like "I see the Past" suggest that maybe this city use to be where he resided.

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  21. Sorry I'm late. I want to comment on what you guys were talking about earlier with the symbolism involving the field of grain. I agree with that, and when i noticed it, it made me start thinking about the symbolism that Longfellow started to do with the city. I concluded that they contrasted each other (both of the authors) because one used a field of grain (like a farm) and the other used a city. When i think of a farm, i think slow paced, and hard-working to keep up and that made me think of the author since he is very successful its because he took his time and was hardworking but he lost track of time maybe? When i think about the city i think fast pace, so... maybe thats how Longfellow saw his life?

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  22. Luis, oh okay. So since the city refers to his past, is he describing what his past was looked to be like or is he physically looking at the city and overlooking the city that passed him by?

    Abigayle Dizon
    Period 6

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  23. Luis, I want to answer your question "in the poem mezzo cammin, what is the symbolism of "to build some tower of song with lofty parapet" trying to explain in lines 3-4?

    I think it meant how he was shielding himself from falling in love maybe? That was the poem that was about how because he fell in love, that was why he couldn't do everything he wanted to? well i think it's meant that he tired to stop that from happening but there was nothing in his power that could. The reason why i think that is because i looked up lofty parapet in the dictionary and i found that lofty means a wall to protect and that parapet means impressively high. So he has he guard up high to make sure it didn't happen... but it ended up happening anyways.

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  24. Abigayle, I think that when it mentions twilight, it can mean the death of the day or birth of the night. It can represent the death in his youth and the beginning of a new time period of Longfellow. And to add to that, when it mentions "city" it can mean that it's closer together or fast pace? I'm not so sure about the last part though.

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  25. Abigayle i agree with you when you said that the "fair creature of the hour" symbolized the women that he met. I was thinking that as well because he seemed like he did meet he but he pushed her aside thinking that after he got to finish what was on his "goals" to be successful that she would be waiting for him and she already moved on.

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  26. It could be either one Abigayle. I think that he uses the city to symbolize his past about how it flew right by him and how he missed out on fulfilling his dreams.

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  27. Jazmin, I understand what you are trying to say. I think the authors both compared their story to a farm and a city. The timing may be the main factor as to why they did. The city is fast-pace and it's easy to not know what is going on around you. So maybe that's what Longfellow was trying to say- that he was sp absorbed with love and with that said, he ignored his own personal goals. And in "When I Have Fears" the farm is where people work hard, but may not have everything they wanted? So Keats was probably saying he works hard, but hasn't had his share of love.

    Abigayle Dizon
    Period 6

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  28. I agree, Luis. Since I also think that he uses city to symbolize his past, city can be referred to fast pace since he missed out on fufilling his dreams. Hence the "fast pace."

    Also, in "When I have Fears" it says "Of reflecting love;-then on the shore" shore can be interpreted as the ocean or opportunities since after that he mentions that he stands alone in line 13. He may be standing alone to reflect on those opportunities?

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  29. In a way, I sort of thought that this was a metaphor, and contained a paradox. Keat was the feild which his imaginations made him think he is like the grain to be harvested, and he is also the harvester (writer of the poem).

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  30. Tiffani, I think "Of unreflecting love;-then on the shore" does talk about his opportunities. He may be saying that since he stands alone, he should move on. I'm not quite sure.

    Abigayle Dizon
    Period 6

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  31. Abigayle, thats what I'm was trying to say. Maybe Longfellow was putting his love ones goals first and the only thing he regrets is not putting some time aside for his own... and maybe that is the reason why he is okay with accepting his death. The reason why i say that is because he knows that even though he didn't get to do what he wanted that his loves one will.

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  32. I agree with Jazmin I think he paid more attention to love when he was young. But I think he accept his death because he realized the past is in the past and he can't change it i think.. But did anyone notice in "When I Have Fears" that the poet repeated "when" and other words throught out the story? Why did the poet repeat those words?

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  33. Do you think there could be a universal theme for BOTH of the poems?

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  34. I think that the author of "When I have fears" uses the word "when" to signify that this isn't the first time he has thought about this, and in fact frequently ponders about death and the regrets of his life

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  35. Cameren, i didn't notice that until you pointed it out, but do you think you can point out the other words for me? I only noticed the "when I.." maybe because he emphasizes that he had himself in mind during the pass years?

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  36. In the poem, "When I Have Fears", I think that love isn't really that important to the speaker. In the last line he says "Love and fame to nothingness do sink". I think he's trying to say that in the end it's not really that important.

    Cameren, good observation, I think he might use "when" because he's talking about when he thinks about his goals and fears. What do you think?

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  37. The universal theme for both poems would something to do with taking advantage of your youth to accomplish as many of your goals as possible because there will come a time when all you have left is your past and you'd want to regret as little of it as possible

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  38. Tim, than what do you think "when i have fears" is about because I'm kind of confused about that one...

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  39. Jazmin, I think the speaker also uses the repetition of "when" to show his concern with time.

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  40. I think that he's referring to when he thinks about his unfulfilled goals.

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  41. Thats a good answer hector. When i was reading both of the poems i kept on wondering if it was possible for these two poems that have a different point of view of death could have a jointed universal theme and i agree with what your saying. So basically to take control of your life and make it what you want to be so you don't end up regretting things?

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  42. In the poem, "When I Have Fears", what do you think the speaker means by "I Stand Alone" in the last line? I think he means he feels alone.

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  43. Jazmin, the other words were "before", "and", and "of" but I'm not really sure if those signify anything.

    Tim, I agree with Hector I think "when" emphasize his repeat thoughts on death and his fears

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  44. Yeah Jazmin, even though both poems have different feelings on death both poems show the speaker looking back at his life and regretting some decision he made

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  45. Oh what i think about both of the poems is that they both regret the time of love they spent. Did anyone think of this way? Or is it just me...?

    Youmi Pang p.6

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  46. I agree with you Youmi. They both have to do with regretting in a way. In "When I Have Fears" the speaker is more of afraid of dying before he finds love. And in "Mezzo Cammin," the speaker is explaining hia regret for love getting away. And I think both poems have to do with reflecting on their past.

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  47. In the poem Mezzo Cammin, why does the author claim he is looking back at a town which in his description seems great and beautiful and yet, the author states that he has not accomplished his goals in life. -Alex Billies p.5

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  48. Alex, the "city in the twilight dim and vast" doesn't necessarliy paint an imagery of a beautiful city. The city is in the twilight and during that time of the day it's getting dark. And he even adds the word "dim" because it's lacking brightness.

    Arianna Montano Per. 6

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  49. Yea, and in the next line he says, "With smoking roofs, soft bells, and gleaming lights". I think he uses those words to describe the city in a reminiscent tone. He is looking back on his life.

    And Arianna, if a word is underlined red you can right click it to spell check. Just saying. >.>

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  50. Why do you guys think that the author of "When I have Fears" wrote his sonnet in one entire sentence? What kind of tone does it create?

    Gee Tim, sorry I don't rely on spell check like you do. Everybody makes typos.

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  51. I think Keats wrote "When I Have Fears" in one entire sentence because it creates a tone where he seems rushed and wants to get everything that he wants to say out there.

    My question is for the poem the same poem, "When I Have Fears" by John Keats: Is the poem solely about heartbreak and losing love or about death, or both? I'm a little confused.

    - Ysa Antioquia, Per 5

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  52. Ysa, I think both.

    Arianna, haha sorry I wasn't trying to be mean, just trying to help. Anyways, I don't think the fact that it's in one sentence is really that relevant to the tone. I think that he has a regretful tone through out the poem and then sort of shifts to bitterness in the last half. I think he is bitter that the "magic hand of chance" did not fall upon him. I think he is also bitter that death is coming so soon and he won't be able to do what he wants.

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  53. Tim, I think the fact that the poem is written in one extremely long run-on sentence contributes to the tone in some way. I do agree that he does have a regretful tone, but I don't think he's bitter. I think he accepts that in the world he'll die alone and death as a whole.

    And why do you think it's both, Tim? By the way, *throughout is one word. ;)

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  54. Mrs. Haslip told about how Mezzo Cammin has more positive meaning than the poem, when i have fears. But i didnt get the idea of how it is.
    could you guys explain?

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  56. Ysa, thank you for correcting the errors throughout my response haha. I have a different opinion/view. I think he IS bitter at the end, even though he accepts it. Just because you accept something doesn't mean your not bitter. For example, if one was to accept the murder of a loved one, that doesn't mean they're not bitter at the murderer.
    And I am also sticking to my opinion on that the run on sentence is irrelevant to the tone, but I could easily be wrong on that one.
    Youmi, Mrs. Haislip said the opposite. She said that "Mezzo Cammin", the speaker was negative and regretful. Look at the first line and the last line. He is regretful that he wasted his life and death is going to eat him up. He also mentions that sorrow stopped him from fulfilling his goals. "When I Have Fears" is more optimistic,though in my opinion he is still being negative, even though he (according to Mrs. Haislip) accepts death.

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  57. Ysa, I think it's about both because he fears he is going to die before the "magic hand of chance" lets him fall in love.

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  58. Yes, Keats does accept death. He also accepts the fact that love and fame "to nothingness do sink." He accepts death because opportunities in the world are endless and in the end, fame and love won't matter.

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  59. I respect your opinion, Tim. So it means that Keats hasn't met "the love of his life" yet? Or has he met her? Or is he just afraid of not experiencing love like that before his death, along with death as well? Just asking for a little more clarification.

    I have another question, and it's for both poems. Is there any importance that both poems are written in sonnets, but one is Shakespearean and the other is Patriarchan / Italian?

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  60. Arianna, I think that the speaker says "love and fame to nothingness do sink" because he accepts the fact he won't have either, but he is still bitter that he won't.
    Ysa, I think it means he hasn't met her and fears of never having the chance of experiencing it before death. I think it's a mixture of fear it won't happen and bitterness that it hasn't.

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  62. In line 7 of Mezzo Cammin, what does he mean by "a care that almost killed"? I know what he is talkig about in the line before, he's saying that he did not fail to accomplish what e wanted because he was lazy, but because he was sad/depressed. I just don't know what he means by "a care that almost killed". What is he trying to say by that?

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  63. Ysa, I believe that Keats did not intend to mean true "love" in terms of something physical, more like life in general. His "love" for writing and humanity before he dies is implied with the quote "And think that I may never live to trace". The poem is Shakespearean because of his interest in some of Shakespeare's songs and sonnets. You can clearly see this in his similar rhyme scheme of abab, cdcd, efef, gg. Shakespeare also touched upon death in sonnet 107 with "Not mine own fears, nor the prophetic soul of the wide world dreaming on things to come". Notice he also uses the phrase "wide world" and the word "fears". Very similar to Keats' poem
    -Matthew Ebreo P5

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  64. Tim, I think he's trying to say that he cared so much about his love that the heartbreak from her dying almost killed him and kept him from what he wants to accomplish later in life. I might be wrong, but that's my opinion.

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  65. Ysa, yea that's a really good way to put it, I agree completely.
    Matthew, my bad smart guy.

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  66. And thank you Matt for that clarification. But what about Patriarchan / Italian? "Mezzo Cammin" was written as a Patriarchan sonnet, does that have any significance towards it?

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  67. Petrachan sonnets usually start off with introducing the initial problem and expresses what they want to attain. One distinct value that these sonnets have is also referring to "unattainable love". During Longfellow's middle life, he had lost his wife to a pregnancy issue. Years later, he wrote Mezzo Cammin and included the phrases "restless passions" and "a care that almost killed". These could also relate to his wife who is already deceased and his depression that followed after her death.
    -Matthew Ebreo P5

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  68. In the poem "When I Have Fears", what does the author mean by "Never have relish in the faery power of unreflecting love"(lines 11-12)?

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  69. I think he saying he probably never gets a chance to experience love. But does anyone understand "the autumnal blast" in the Mezzo Cammin and what its referring to?
    Cameren Johnson P6

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  70. When the author of "Mezzo Cammin" said "the automnal blast", he is referring to the time before death. In the last two lines of the poem, he expresses his fear to death in a more negative way than the other poem. When he says "Death far thundering from the heights" he is basically saying that death is near.

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  71. Mario, what the author is referring in the lines "Never have relish in the faery power of unreflecting love" (lines 11-12) is tied to the prior two lines of the poem: "And when I feel, fair creature of an hour!
    That I shall never look upon thee more,
    Never have relish in the faery power
    Of unreflecting love..." (9-12). In this Quatrain what the author is referring to, is his concern about not having enough time (before his death)to attain "high romance" (line 6) which refers to "true love" or "almost his platonic/ideal love", this would be the main idea of the quatrain. When he says "never have relish in the faery power" he is glorifying love and making clear his longing for love. Tied to this is that when he mentions, "of unreflecting love" he is probably referring to an uncorresponded love or the love he felt/received from a loved one who passed away. You need to analyze the phrase in context in order to understand its meaning and its role in the quatrain.

    Camila Fernandez P.5

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  72. After reading both poems, what are each writers opinion of death? -Lauren Rodriguez p.6

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  73. I think Keats accepts death with neutral opinion and he is ok of what he didn't accomplish like love. But Longfekkow is more upset about death because he might have had a bad experience with death in the past and his tone throughout the poem is very depressing.

    Cameren Johnson P6

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  74. In Mezzo Cammin in line 9 "Though, half-way up the hill, I see the past," what is the hill symbolizing?

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  75. Cameren, the hill represents Longfellow's life unfolding. Everything he's done is mostly represented by the "hill". The phrase "half-way up" hints on the life he wasted before. What would "a city in the twilight" be referring to in terms of the author's perspective?
    -Matthew Ebreo P5

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  76. Cameren, I think that the hill simbolizes his life. In the beginning of the poem, the author said "Half of my life is gone" which means that he is middle-aged and now he is saying "half-way up the hill, I see the past" meaning that now he is looking back into his memories.

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  77. Lauren, I think that the poem "When I Have Fears" is explaining more of thinking about death. His thoughts are all there, and he does have potential for love, but he's afraid that he won't find someone. In line 13, "of the wide world," he's trying to interpret that there's a lot out there. So there's a lot of opportunities. But when he stands alone, he still feels empty inside. But the first poem is much more in a hopeful tone than in the poem "Mezzo Cammin." In the second poem, the speaker is mentioning how he wasted part of his life and he longs for his old life back. And he's saying that this sorrow he had kept him from reaching all of his dreams. And he senses that his death is coming. (line 13)

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  78. Matthew, when the author said "city" he was referring to his past, and when he said "twilight" maybe he meant the death of a time period in his life or the start of a new period or maybe both since twilight means de end of the day and the beginning of the night. He is just using a metaphor.

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  79. In When I Have Fears, what is meant by line 3, "Before high-piled books, in charactery?"
    -Andrea Laserna P-6

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  80. Keats meant before he wanted to write his life story or become a author but he felt that he didn't have enough time to do that.

    Cameren Johnson P6

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  81. Line 3 of "When I have Fears" refers to his desire to write, but didn't have the opportunity because of the speakers distraction from the little things by love.

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  82. I thought that Keats was already an writer and that he just wanted to write more. He feared that he might not get the chance to write longer because he does not have much more time. And isn't it Longfellow who got distracted by little things by love, not Keats.

    Clara Kwon P6

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  83. Tiffani, that clarifies the theme. But i still dont understand how in "When I Have Fears" how it relates him to being a writer?

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  84. Lauren I think "When I Have Fears" relates to him being a writer because in line 2 and 3 he writes "Before my pen has glean'd my teeming brain, Before high-piled books". Which means he has alot of things he wants to write about and wants to publish his own books.

    Cameren Johnson P6

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  85. Cameren, so if he has a lot of ideas or thought he wants to write about he's afraid of never being able to show the public and he is accepting the fact that there is very little time left to do everything he wants to accomplish in his life is what he is trying to say correct? and where as in "Mezzo Cammin'" he knows his timing is coming but isnt satisfied with what he has done his whole life.

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  86. Lauren, I think Keats is comparing his ambition and will of writing to "garners [hold] the full ripen'd grain(5)." He is saying that his "teeming brain" is fertile, meaning he has a lot of ideas he wants to put into practice. Like Cameren said, he wants to publish these ideas beacause they are due(like ripen'd grain)before he dies (for harvest).

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  87. Andrea, i see your point. i also didnt understand in "when i have fears" how people thought he had/has a loved one?

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  88. Lauren, I need that clarified too. But I think we got that association from "huge cloudy symbols of a high romance(line 6)" and from "fair creature (line9)." I remember in class we agreed that "fair creature" could represent someone he loved or the beauty of nature. If he had a lover, that someone didn't love him back as in "unreflecting love (12)." A reflection is supposed to show you what you give. But Keats never has his love returned. Also when he says "faery power", he means that this love is of fantasy. He is acknowledging that he may never get to experience this.

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  89. Garrett Alwaque p.6

    @ Dale B. I think that the author was afraid of love at the time, that he feared what love could be and do to him, but then regreted not falling in love that would lead to hapiness

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  90. Lauren, I thought that he didn't have a loved one. Keats mentions about the idealistic love that hee might not get the chance. In line 6, it says "Huge cloudy symbols of high romance," and the high a romance refers to the idealistic love that he wanted.

    Clara Kwon P6

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  91. Andrea, that makes some sense, but technically thats just another one of his goals that he wished he fulfilled right?

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  92. P.6

    What does (their) shadows resemble in lines 7-8 of when i have fears. what is (their) referring to?

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  93. p.6

    @ lauren,keats wanted love as his goal in life but his"unreflecting love" in line 12 shows that he may never recieve it and that love is lost.

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  94. p.6

    @ Cameren Johnson, I belive that the author in "when i have fears" is a writer but maybe cannot express what he feels because he is not well known or liked and that influences his regret

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  95. Why does the author in "mezzo cammin" refer to "some tower of song with lofty parapet" is this quote representing the want to accomplish what he wanted in life, and the complications love has caused to his aspirations

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  96. p.6

    @ lauren the author in "when i have fears" i belive the author has met someone but has not gotten to know her. for example"upon the night starr'd face" in line 5 could represent him meeting someone as beautiful as stars but his chances are unknowing or dark as the night sky.

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  97. Garrett, when the author of "Mezzo Cammin" said "Some tower of song with lofty parapet" he was comparing his goals to a tower he wanted to built before death. The "tower of song with lofty parapet" also symbolizes his great ambition of accomplishing big thinks.

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  98. Garett, (line 6) does refer to what he wants to accomplish. The tower symbolizes his legacy of what he wants to leave behind, but Longfellow didn't fulfill it by not living life to its fullest.

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  99. I agree that "Some tower of song with lofty parapet,"(4) refers to the accomplishment that he wanted to built. But we don't know if he did or did not fulfill it. This poem is written when Longfellow lived half way through his life. And the poem only indicates Longfellow's regret for not accomplishing things because of the sorrow that kept him down.

    Clara Kwon P6

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  100. Longfellow could have or not fulfilled his accomplishments of (line 4),but Longfellow states in the first 3 lines that his ambitions during his youth were not fulfilled.

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  101. Keats in my opinion in the end has come to terms with his death but he talks about a woman, who is she in relation to his life or death?
    Longfellow is a different story. He obviously in the end hasn't come to terms with his death. But what is he so worried about he has 40 years left after he writes this poem? At the bottom of the poem it says it 1842 - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow (1807-1882) that is a full forty years till his death! Why did he worry about it so early in his life?

    Bailey Skeet Period 5

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